A chat about grants with FundEd

Automatically generated from the audio, so it may not be perfectly word-for-word.

Hi, welcome to the PTA podcast. My name is Yvonne, and I've been a PTA volunteer for a few years now. And I'm just one of thousands of volunteers up and down the country who all want to make a difference to their schools. PTAs are becoming even more crucial in UK schools to boost budget, and I find it fascinating to talk to other volunteers about the different approaches they take. So please join me in this podcast to share information, generate ideas, debate issues, and celebrate success. And I hope that you can take something away for your PTA today. Today I'm going to share with you a riveting conversation I had with Richard Manville, who really champions school fundraising, which you'll hear all about in a moment. He's the managing director of a company which is called Community Inspired, and it's a social enterprise focused on helping PTAs and schools. And his company also runs the PTA Plus website and the school fundraising magazine, which I uh I spoke to the editor of that magazine in episode 27. So you might like to go back and listen to that episode as well. But today we're going to hear from Richard himself about a different part of his company, which is the Funded website, and it's all about um making grant applications and reaching out to grab pots of money in other areas. So if you've always wanted to try making grant applications, or if you haven't had a lot of success making grant applications, or if you're looking to reach out and maybe try to get some sponsorship and some relationships with local businesses, then this is definitely the episode for you because Richard has a lot of really interesting and useful things to say on those topics. I specifically wanted to introduce Richard to you on the podcast as he has developed, among other things, a fantastic resource to help schools and PTAs navigate the world of grant applications, which can be incredibly time consuming if you're trying to do this yourself by searching on the internet. You have to trawl through an awful lot of information on the internet to really get to where you're going. But his team manage a huge searchable database of grants specifically available to schools and PTAs, as well as offering other services like a personalised review of your school fundraising to help you identify other areas in which you could look for funding, which is, I think, just a really invaluable tool. As you will hear in a moment, he's also really passionate about encouraging local businesses to support their schools, and he's got loads of ideas on how you could approach a local business and how you could work with a local business to mutually benefit both of you. And I have to say, it despite my eight years in the PTA, I learnt an awful lot listening to Richard's ideas. So I hope that you do too, and I really hope that there's some takeaways for you to have a go at in your own PTA. So let's just get stuck into the conversation. Hi Richard, and welcome to the PTA podcast. Thank you so much for agreeing to chat to me today, all about fundraising, PTAs, and the funded website and how you can support schools. Would you like to introduce yourself to my listeners and tell us a little bit about yourself?

Yeah, sure. My name's Richard Landville. I'm the managing director of a social enterprise called Community Inspired. And we've been working around supporting schools and school fundraising since about 2010 or 11. Uh, we developed the PTA Plus service on PTA.co.uk and all the PTA Facebook groups. And then sort of around 2016-17, we developed Funded, which was designed to um, I guess, become almost like an overarching brand for fundraising for the whole of education that I guess PTAs would fit under. And the reason we did that was that we were approached by quite a lot of schools saying, we've seen what you do for PTAs, can you help us? And from that, we developed a funded suite of uh services which include a grants, database, online platform, funding reviews, and other types of fundraising support that uh would normally fall outside of the remit of the PTA. And also we became aware that there are lots of schools out there very much in need of fundraising that for whatever reason find it difficult to um uh put in place a PTA. So they aren't don't have access to that brilliant volunteer support that the PTAs offer. So we wanted to find a way of working with those schools as well, which is uh where we developed the other side of our portfolio of products.

Okay, so so how did you sort of get the idea? Was it just schools just literally approached you and said, This is what we need, can you help?

Well originally Well, originally we were working um in community-related um services, and my colleague became the chair of his PTA in about 2009, I think it was. And um, it was in the days where you had a you were given a vanilla folder full of some forms and little else, and he found it sort of quite confusing and quite difficult to get started. And he thought, well, I wonder if there was a way that we could start developing something that could support other PTAs. And out of that uh came some work we did with um an organization that turned into Perakind. We worked with uh their predecessor, which uh was uh PTA UK or the NCPTA, I think it was known as at the time. And um and we very much were looking at ways to we very much concentrated on trying to develop uh simple ideas that helped uh PTAs run more effectively and fundraise more effectively. So we we never really wanted to get involved too much with the sort of legal side or the insurance side because that was already being handled by someone else. Yeah, but we wanted to concentrate on um how uh uh PTAs could fundraise more effectively and also how PTAs could talk to each other and and uh learn from other PTAs. And after that became uh um PTA Plus and the PTA Plus magazine that we we've been running, and um and then uh when we developed the funded service through 2016-17, we realized after a while that the the fundraising that we've always been involved in fundraising for what we call enrichment and extracurricular, because that's important to us because they're the things that really make a difference. So when you're a kid and and you go through your education and you look back, you remember all those wonderful things you did at school, all those enrichment activities. And those are the things that get squeezed first when funding gets gets tight. So we wanted to concentrate on that, and as um we were helping schools fundraise through funded for that, and we were helping PGAs fundraise for those types of products and services, we then merged them into our current magazine, School Fundraising Magazine, which sort of combines the two.

Yeah, so that's yeah, and I I spoke to Carol on a previous episode, who's the editor of that magazine. Yeah, and that and yeah, I really like the way actually that the school fundraising magazine has now sort of grabbed a lot of content from the funded website with the grants um database, and that I think it adds a lot of value into the the magazine as a whole. I think it's really good to move to do that.

Yes, and when I I I do quite a lot of work around the country talking at a lot of business management or or or head teacher conferences around fundraising in general, and actually quite a lot of the people from that say, look, we love the magazine, and actually they also love a lot of the PTA stuff, PTA ideas. And and one of the areas that we've always wanted to try and and and uh engage with schools about is how they can make sure that that relationship between the PTA and the school is as strong as it can be, and that is an area that often needs some work. So, again, that that's sort of the magazine helps us sort of achieve sort of some plans on that side as well.

And that's actually a really nice um way to bring those two aspects together, uh, because it sounds like PTA Plus obviously is targeted towards PTAs. But are you are you saying that the funded side is more targeted towards school administrators, or is that just as much for PTAs?

I guess it's targeted at school leadership teams, yes. Okay. So um the grants database now, which has well over 350 grants, 14 million pounds worth of grants, are uh mostly applied for by schools, but there is no reason why PTAs can't apply for them. And actually, one of the things we all always say to schools is particularly if you're not at an academy, that because a PTA is a charity, they should always be able to apply for grants. So if you're working with us under a funded subscription license, make sure you share our login database to our to our grants to database with your PTA people because they might well be able to apply on your behalf. Um so there are uh there are some differences, I suppose. I suppose one of the main differences is we do quite a lot of work around developing relationships with local businesses. So a PTA might work with local businesses in terms of things like um getting raffle prizes together from local shops and retailers, etc. Whereas um we we also work with uh schools around developing sort of partnerships with businesses, perhaps larger businesses, where they can offer the school support both financially, but also that might be mentoring, that might be coming in and doing some assemblies, it might be some career-related stuff, uh, or some providing some extra resources or support in other areas. And actually, I do think that um developing um those business relationships is something that's gonna become more and more important for schools, particularly as more schools are trying to um apply for an ever-diminishing grant pot, if you like.

Yeah, yeah.

And the more schools that need it, the more the grant provider organizations are saying, well, okay, it depends on your level of pupil premium, etc. etc.

Yes, that's right.

A lot of schools that that traditionally were quite successful with with grant applications are now finding it more difficult. So you need to find other ways for them to generate the funds if they want to, you know, continue to spend the money on those enrichment extracurricular products and services.

I mean, we haven't applied for many grants, certainly not through the PTA directly, but I know that when we applied for a grant to get funding for our new school library, we were applying for something like £10,000 to really do a whole kit-out job on the on a new library. And one of the questions on the form we're filling out on our grant application was, you know, how many people is this grant going to benefit? And because we're such a small school, we've only got 80 children, it was really difficult to answer that question, knowing that this grant funder would have had, you know, so many other grants from much bigger schools, and therefore the money that they could give to a bigger school would benefit more people, like the same amount of money would just benefit more people. And so I do think that that's one of the reasons we didn't get that that funding, just because we couldn't, we just didn't have enough bodies to kind of you know show that it was great value for money for the funder, which was a real shame because then I think certainly for schools the size of mine, it it puts us at a disadvantage when actually the pool of you know parents that we can get money from for things is is so much smaller. So yeah, it is tricky and therefore good to have other ideas of where you can reach out to get money from if you if the grant applications are going to be tricky.

Yeah, and that's why also when you find a grant that you you want to apply for, I always suggest that you try to contact the grant provider and have a conversation, explain your situation because one of the other areas that's very frustrating, and I'd love to find a way through it, is that it seems like almost every grant provider asks you to apply for a grant in a different way. So they have an online form or an email or write to us or fill in this whatever it is. And I'm thinking, well, if there could be some consistency, so a school could fill in the basic information that's always the same for every grant application, and then you're just filling in about that particular need and why you want the money, it'll make it a lot easier for schools. Yeah, so because and there is quite a lot of work in applying for a grant, and there's no way around that, you just have to go through that. So I would always suggest that it's quite good to ring and contact someone first and just have a chat through. And um, so then you might get a better feel for how successful you might be. Um, and if they do say to you at that stage, look, it's unlikely you're going to qualify, then at least you'll know that when you're filling in that grant application.

No, I 100% agree with that. Because one of my previous jobs in a in before I had children was actually working at a grant funding body, um, which was actually bizarrely funding research into cereal and oilseed rape crops in the UK in order to make them more profitable for farmers. And we had universities and other types of research centres sending in applications for funding. And the ones that were more successful were always the ones that phoned us and chatted through the application, and then we could help them modify and adapt the application so it was that it fitted as best as it could to the criteria that we had. And you know, also just getting to know the people that were putting the fund the application in all that sort of thing.

Yeah, I think that's really key. You're developing the relationship. Yeah. I mean, I remember there was a lady who applied for grants, and she had to meet she did that, she always did that. She rang up, she spoke to them, had a good chat with them, and she said to them, I'm gonna send my application. This is in the days when you posted it, I'm gonna send my application in a bright yellow envelope or something like that.

Yeah.

And so and so it stood out when it arrived with six gas applications as a bright yellow envelope, and that the lady therefore remembered.

Yeah.

Um, the other thing that's really important, I think, is to follow up. So, if particularly when you're successful with grants, is make sure that you keep going back to that provider and saying, thank you, three months on, this is how we're doing with the project. Maybe another six months, this is how we're doing with the project. So that they can see that you've used that money wisely and you've really sort of thought about, and you know, they can see the value that that grant has provided that school and the children in that school, which means that if you then have another grant to apply for, I think if you're going back to that same organisation, they'll then have some feeling that that you're a school or a charity that's going to use that money wisely.

Yeah, I think again, that's a really good tip. And the place that I worked at before, I mean, the grants we were funding were hundreds of thousands of pounds and on a different level because it was scientific research, but we had a requirement that they had to provide reports every six months on progress. Um, but that also gave us as the funding body then um sort of data and content to sort of share, you know, in the media and say, look, we're funding this and look, it's going well, and we're pouring money into this area. So yeah, I think uh even if I mean some grant applications, if you get awarded a grant, that is part of the criteria that you have to fulfill, isn't it? But for small grants, even for small grants, I think it's a nice thing to do to go back and say thanks, and this is what we achieved with the money.

And there's lots of local grants. I mean, on our pta.co.uk website, you'll see a little tab for local, and we within that we have every county. And we've tried to include in in that county lots of little local grants that wouldn't fit, aren't big enough to go into our major major grants database. Yeah, and there'd be lots of community foundations and different organizations in that in Devon, for example, that that donate money. And you can actually go even more micro. And and I know that um one of the ladies who works for me was on a PTA, and she raised a huge amount of money through sort of six or seven smaller organizations. I think one was a police force, one was a fire brigade, one was a garden center, and where she would just effectively just be writing saying this is what we're doing, this is what we're looking for money to help and what she can achieve. And she actually raised quite a lot of money that way. So there's lots of different things you can do. Yeah, but it is all about that communication, and then once you've done that, the feedback, you know, making sure that you keep them up to date with what you're doing with the money because they can then use that in their own social media.

That's right.

Yeah, they can say, Well, we donated money to this XYZ school, this is what they've done with it. But they can create a little social media post, put it on their website so it's good for them and good for their exposure, yeah, and their community partnership work, etc. etc. So I think it helps all around from that point of view.

Yeah, and especially nice if it's money that's within the same community as well. Because we have um uh a carnival quite local to us who who the they when they collect the money from the carnival, they then have a pot of money that small local charities can apply to within a sort of fifty, well, not even fifteen miles actually, I would say five mile radius of the carnival. And so it's you know, local people's money going to local charities, and I think that's even more special um to tell people about as well, that sort of little circular community going round and round.

Absolutely, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. So it sounds like you've been um involved in fundraising for quite some time, Richard. Have you ever been involved in any PTA events yourself or or attended any PTA events?

I've attended lots of PTA and other small charity events, um, helped out a few, but not been involved formally with a PTA. My son's school did it had a quite quite a well-managed friends of association.

Right, okay.

So I went to a lot of events, but um I was at a time just starting setting up the organization, so it was it was difficult to do both. But yeah, but I've certainly uh done my time on m mostly I get put on the bar actually, funny enough. And uh which is fine. So um, so and my my brother-in-law ranny's PTA in Kent for a long time, and I would help out at different giving some advice. But yeah, so so I've had lots of experience uh sort of just attending and sort of being around events, yeah from that project year.

Well, the bar is normally the most profitable part of an event, so I think you must have done a good job at those ones.

Yes, yes, and I think it's improved. I think things like taking money digitally now has helped hugely with PTAs. Firstly, because it means you've got no one who has to worry about counting up the coins at the end of the evening. Yeah, and there's always that slight concern that someone has, well, I've got all this money, honestly, I've got it all, I've got it here, whatever. Does someone else want to count it? Because there's always those problems. Um, but obviously, if you're taking money digitally, it means that that's all secure and much easier to build for. Yeah, but also if people are out for an evening and they uh they have 20 pounds in their pocket and they spend 20 pounds, the 20 pounds is gone. If they're having a great evening and they can pay and they can tap for more, they can end up spending 40 or 50 pounds. So that's right, yeah. It just means that you can generate more money and keep it safer and record it and all those sorts of things as well. So uh I think I think um I think that's changed quite a lot from that point of view.

Yeah, yeah. And I think you're right. I think it is much better. It's like an open-ended, open-ended spending account, isn't it? When you have those card machines, people can just come along and use them.

Yeah, and and things like raffle tickets, you know, we do like we we do, we have a an online raffle ticket, but I also promote lots of other raffle ticket companies. And um and the traditional raffle tickets are great, and people like those, and you can do a combination. But now obviously, you because you can have digital raffle tickets, it means you can send them to aunties and godparents and expand your network of the people who can buy tickets.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, and again, everything is so much more secure in the way it's managed and the the way the money's taken. It sort of all works very well, I think.

Yeah, and I feel like that got a real boost when it was COVID, didn't it? Certainly, that's when my PTA started to change from cash to card and all just payments online, um, because nobody wants to handle so much coin, so many coins. Oh of course, yes, from catching, yeah, yeah, from catching COVID, exactly. Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah, so for yeah, so from our point of view, that's when that kind of just yeah, all changed at that point for us. So uh okay, so let's focus in on the FundEd website and talk about what it can offer to a school. So my school actually signed up to FundEd just um just a couple of weeks before half term, and I know that my um I think within a couple of days of signing up, my school administrator had already um applied, made a grant application. So brilliant. Um she was all over it straight away. But but uh my school is actually fundraising for some um some sheds and some gazebos because our sheds that holds the um outdoor pea equipment and our forest school equipment are completely on their last legs. So I I feel like it's a really nice, easy um package to fundraise for because everybody understands what a shed is and you know why you need them. So um I guess she must have found, I don't actually know where she applied, but she must have found a suitable um uh place. To do that. And uh so I had a look on the uh Funded website, and I was actually really blown away by the amount of support available on there and the and just the breadth of different topics that you've covered. Um and I wondered if you could explain what you have included in the website to support schools.

Well, I think in what in terms of schools that signed up to funded.

Yeah, just that because you you seem to sort of have divided it into a few different categories. And I just wondered if you could talk about that.

Yeah, uh uh if I talk about the subscription, because what we wanted to do was um the the key thing really is to help schools understand how they can fundraise. Um the big problem that schools have, and um anyone involved in school fundraising understands this, is that if they haven't got PTA, particularly, and if the school is trying to fundraise, it's just time and resources. They they they they're well-intentioned, they want to fundraise, they're really keen to fundraise. But they often often you're dealing with bursars or business managers who are lovely people and I love them, they're great. But of course, if you've got the skill set to be a really good business manager, you don't necessarily have the right skill set or the perfect skill set to be a fundraiser. Yeah, so uh just you know the ability to go and talk to local businesses or or get involved with running events, it's just not your skill set. So a lot of what we try and do is try and simplify things. And one thing we like doing um is, and we say when people subscribe to us, we have a form that they can fill in to send to us where we'll put together a fundraising review for that school. And what we try to do, therefore, is look at the specific characteristics of that school, where they're located, levels of pupil premium, the demographics of the parent base, whether they're uh sort of in the remote community or surrounded by businesses, et cetera, et cetera. And from that, we can then look at the different types of um fundraising strategy that should work for that type of school.

That's really amazing. Really amazing idea to offer to a school that.

Yeah, and it turned out when we first wanted to do it, I thought we know all the answers, but surely that's just too difficult to do that for so many different schools. But actually, once we've done about 30, you realize that there's lots of similarities. So actually, yeah, so so a school that comes in from mid-devon or whatever, what would be different would be the grant review we do would be more specific around what they're raising funds for, and we'd find local grants and whatever. Um, but a lot of the general information might fit with the school that we did with Somerset the month before or whatever. So there are some similarities, yeah. And also allows us um years ago, we started putting together some templated letters. So if you're looking for sponsorship or you're like writing local businesses, some templated letters that allow you to fill in what you're looking at, you know. I mean, everyone can write a letter, but actually, if you've not written a sponsorship letter before, yeah. I mean, I've worked in sales all my life, so I understand how you put together a sales pitch. And actually, if you're asking for sponsorship, effectively that's what you're doing. You know, you're telling them what the need is, you're you're you're asking what you're looking for, and you're giving them some feedback on how you'll thank them for it. So so so so as as part of reviews, we'll also put together some templated letters for them for what they're looking to raise funds for. So we try to make things as easy as possible for a school then to just pick that up and then send them out to whoever they're looking to raise funds for. Um, and obviously, we we you know more recently AI has helped on that sort of side because I can put in reviews and letters that I've done for others and I can get a new one and I can merge them together. So I can and then you still have to edit it. That's the skill because you have to still you have to know you know that that that it makes sense, but it just cuts down a little bit of the time.

Yeah.

And and I think so so it is a lot of it is quite a lot of work, but it actually is quite a rewarding thing to do. And it's and and because you know if they then follow that strategy, there's a good chance that they'll they'll be successful with what they're trying to do.

But also, that's something that a school can keep for a long time because once you've done that review with them, obviously most of the data will be the same, and and the the things that they're applying for, want funding for, that will change. But ultimately the school is still in the situation it's in, it's still got the same number of pupils it's got, yeah, all that sort of thing.

So and within the document, we do provide quite a lot of other general strategy device, and we break it down to uh grants, event fundraising, building relationships with local businesses. So there's different sections that they can look at and and and and as you say, keep for future reference as well.

Yeah, yeah.

And and the general theme will be the same, you know. Generally, if you're a school that um will will will qualify for lots of grants and be able to achieve grants and uh and also perhaps some CSR funding from local businesses, um because of the nature of where you are and the demographics of your where you are and perhaps the poverty levels in the area you are, might mean you'll find it harder to raise funds through typical PTA events or crowdfunding or online fundraising. Whereas if you find that you're finding it difficult to qualify for grants, likewise it means it probably that you might find it easier to raise funds through online fundraising uh parent events because of the nature of because the the you know the yin-yin-yang of of fundraising from that point of view.

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point is. Yeah, and I think in that sense, all the schools are unique and all the PTAs I've spoken to, again, are unique and structured in a unique way because they just have to fit just to that one school. So um, yeah, I think I think you're absolutely right that you know what works for one doesn't work for the other, and you've just got to kind of I guess I guess the the magic would be to work out what is your special thing at your school that you can do and and really focus on that and and then you're not wasting, not essentially wasting your time, but you're not using time up on things that are just not going to work ultimately.

Yeah, exactly. And also the other thing that I think work what once I've started working closer with schools is is helping schools understand if they have got a PTA, how they must make sure they get the most of that PTA, make the most of them, you know, to really nurture that PTA and welcome it. Because I do think you do, and we get lots of calls from from schools and from PTAs where there is a fractured relationship between the two, and it's very difficult. So if you can build that relationship, it it can be a real boon for a school, you know, having a PTA that that that's working on behalf of it and it's working as a team and things. So often I say to to PTAs sometimes, I say, Well, one thing I would advise, because one of the problems at the moment where there is so little funding around, schools will try and go to a PTA and say, you know, we have a leaking roof, I need 5,000 sort of thing. And the PTA quite rightly will say, Well, you can't have it because we're an independent generity, and yeah, the money was raised for the trim trail, and that's got to be spent to the trim trial because when we raise the money and we told people what they were making donations for, that's what it has to be spent on. That's right. Yeah. So one of the things I often say is, why don't you say to the school at the beginning of the year, a percentage of everything we raise, typically say 10%, you can call off at any time you wish for whatever you wish. Right. And we'll put in a constitution and we'll put in uh information for parents that through the year we're fundraising for this, but but a small portion of funds are kept backed for emergencies if the school needs it. Therefore, it helps the relationship of both parties, but also the school does know if it has a problem and the mini-bus breaks down or you need whatever. Uh something that isn't traditionally what you think of as a fundraising sort of product or buy, it means you can have access to that fund and that improves the relationship. Everything works better, I think, if you start sort of working out ways that they can work together more smoothly.

Yeah, and I think you're right that the PTA would would be so much more successful if it has the support of the school behind it. Um it's and you know, and that can be just the school sending out emails, it could be, you know, maybe some teachers volunteering to do a stall. It could be really tiny things, but it makes such a massive difference, doesn't it?

Yeah, I think I think that's right. And I think if and anything you can do to to create that karma environment between the two and show that actually it can work more effectively. I mean, there always big problems with personalities of it. It happens within BTAs and within schools.

It certainly does, yeah.

My wife's a teacher that way. I know all about it. Yeah, yeah. But I I do think if there's some general rules where you can see the benefit, I always say that fundraising is a whole school activity, really, because the benefits of fundraising are felt by the whole school, and that's why I try to make sure that this the school thinks about it as a community sort of relationship because the whole community benefits from the school.

Yeah. Yeah.

And um, and also if you do that and you promote the successes of fundraising, it it's it's one of these things that um, you know, it it if you once you've done it and you've seen it and it works, everyone says, Oh, we'll do it again, but we'll do it bigger, you know, it can get quite exciting. I mean, there's a school near us in East Quinstead that started running a um like a sort of a pop concert type, but like a mini um Glastonbury, I guess.

Oh, okay, yeah.

And it became quite popular. And and but actually it became such a popular event that they started giving out free wristbands toward primary schools. Oh, wow so the kids could go. And of course, that then they suddenly realized they were almost using it as a recruiting vehicle because they saw what a nice school it was. And it was at some of it, and it was quite fun.

Yeah, that's that's such a great story. And actually, on the Fun Dead website, um, when you go in, there were so many articles in there showcasing what other PTAs have done and what other schools have done as well. And I think that's such a lovely part of the website because it's it's so lovely to see um the approaches other people have taken and just ideas that you would never have thought of before. Um and and like you were saying, that PTAs use it, but also schools use it, and because the schools can then see what PTAs have done, that can help them see the potential of their PTA, I think, when perhaps they didn't realise what was possible before.

I think that's absolutely true. If you've if you can go on and see what other schools are doing and you find schools in similar locations to you with similar issues and think, well, they did that, they went and asked that company for money, or they did this, or they ran that. Yeah, we could do, you know. And we try to, where we have them on the bottom of uh when we have grants listed, you'll see this on the grants database, um, previously funded projects. Well, put at the bottom of grants so other can people can see what who applied for grants and who was successful they did with the money.

So that's great, that's a good idea. So could you tell us a bit more about the uh grants database on there, Richard? How how do you get all the data to populate that?

And we have a wonderful lady called Sarah. Okay. Um we have other wonderful ladies, Roz and and Emma and others, but um who is dedicated to really keeping the grants database up to date. So she's always searching out, finding new grants, turning up grants, and then making sure that the that she's always on top of when they're open for applications and when they're closing and any changes, and then making sure that that information is then reflected in the database so that when people search for grants, that uh that A, they can find them for what they're looking for, but the information that they see within it in terms of the application deadlines, etc., are accurate.

Yeah. Wow. So she must spend an awful lot of time trawling the internet finding things.

Yeah, because because I think that's the point. I mean, because if you've got Google or anything, yeah, anyone oh, you could probably find the grants if you had the time.

Well, that's exactly right. It's the time, isn't it? That it takes. Yeah.

Yeah.

And and what's nice about your database, I notice, is that the different ways you can search it. So I think you can search it by key stage of child, you can search it by um category of you know, what you're fundraising for, you can search by region. And I thought that was such a good idea because you might, you know, if you're just, for example, searching for key stage one or something, you and then you read uh see what's available, it might jog your memory as to something your school is doing, and you might see a connection to a grant, and you might not have even thought there might be funding for that particular thing. So I did like the fact that it wasn't like the search wasn't too specific, so it kind of opened up more possibilities for you when you're looking for something.

Yes. Yeah. Actually, lots of the grants are quite general, and they have sometimes they have quite a broad sort of uh range of um potential schools that can apply for them and potential products that are interrace funds for. Which again is why it's important that when you've tracked down a couple of grants that you can, if you can, ring them up and just talk through your project.

So, and another thing that it can help with is uh something you were saying before about the schools developing relationships with local businesses, possibly. Yeah. Do you have any tips on how somebody could get started in that?

Well, we have tons of tips, and uh, part of the review is obviously we we provide lots of support information around, we have a framework document around how you go about building relationships with local businesses and some tips and um some templated letters to get people started. I mean, I am about to launch, I have a plan to develop a database, a network of businesses that want to support schools. Oh, right, brilliant funded community network. And the idea is I'm gonna go out and just and just contact uh thousands and thousands of businesses and say, are you interested in working with schools and supporting schools? And if you are, give can you give me a contact of that person and make sure that you're happy for schools to contact you? We won't publish your information, so it won't be people being able to see it. Yes. But if I have a school in in mid-devon that's looking for support, I can go in and and tell that school there are 16 businesses within five miles that said they're interested in supporting schools.

Oh, that sounds fantastic.

And it'll be a slow burner, but I think as it grows, it will it will become um because because uh what we found in the past in talking to businesses, a lot of businesses do want to work with schools, but they don't know who to approach or how to approach them.

Yeah.

So if you can prov find the right contact, because a lot of businesses, I mean, if they're B2C businesses, if they sell goods to consumers, okay, then they then you know they they would see a school as as having 300 potential buyers of their local product. You know, and all businesses have a marketing budget, and although we're not charging them money, but the school might be asking for a donation, yeah, it's just using some of that marketing budget in a way, I guess, isn't it? But also businesses, you know, they they feel like they're part of the community. If they're an employer, then obviously they want to create a good impression for potential future people within that school that might be interested in working with them one day. So there's lots of different reasons to develop it, yeah. And uh and the other thing I'm looking to do as well is develop. Um, we have a a sort of a logo-e type brand badge we've we're creating called um uh community a funded community champion. Um, and the idea with that is that you find a business to um support you. So for example, funded, um, which we charge £75 a year, so it's not hugely expensive. But I'd like schools to find a local business to donate, say, £500 a year to the school as a and become their community champion. But all of that money that they donate has to be spent on fundraising.

Yeah.

So it can either be you obviously used to purchase things like funded, yeah, but also perhaps it might pay for a bid writer if they don't have bid writing skills.

Oh, okay. I see. So it's skilling up basically.

Yes, yes, it might pay for some CPD training, yeah. Um, or it might it might pump prime an event they want to run. So if you want to bring in a circus, for example, and which can make a lot of money, but sometimes you might have to spend a thousand or five, fifteen hundred pounds up front to secure that, and some so you sometimes need some funding to do that. So yeah, so I think the idea of every school in the country having a community champion that is their funding champion, if you like, the money is spent, but it goes to the school, I think that's a really nice idea.

Yeah.

So there's some different ways I'm thinking about how we might help schools do that. So um, yeah, because we've always tried to keep our costs very low. I mean, £75 doesn't sound like a lot, but even the school has to get £75 signed off.

Yes, it does, yeah.

You know, I I I think I want to get to a situation where I say to a school is, well, if I can find you a sponsor, I'll find you someone to sponsor it for three years, yeah, then then that cost is covered.

Yeah.

And that means that you can then get on, find the grants, take the other support and get moving with your fundraiser.

Yeah, that's great, because you've obviously identified that that £75 could be a barrier to a school getting help from an organization like Funded. And we don't want those kinds of barriers. If it and if it's just money, then you know it's kind of an easy problem to solve sometimes if you find the right person.

I had a great school come to me last year and they love what we do. They said, look, this sounds they said to me, this is a business manager, she said, This sounds ridiculous. I'm not allowed to sign off anything. Oh I can't sign off since my band. She said, It's it's mad. I'll pay, but I'm gonna pay it myself. She said, Which I said, don't be stupid, just keep it, you know, that's fine. But it just showed that you know, I mean I know this from my wife's teacher, I know how tight things are. And even even when you funnily enough, when you go to the shows sometimes in conferences and I go around and talk to the stands, you see all the teachers on the hunt for glue sticks. Yeah.

They try to deal with the glue sticks. Yeah, or whiteboard pens. That's what that's what I was calling these whiteboard pens because they we get loads, and then somehow they never work or they go funny really quickly, and then you have to buy loads more.

Because they're at a conference, they probably get a batch for the conference and last very long.

So that's true, yeah.

So yes, so um that sounds really good though.

I mean, working with businesses, it's not something I've been involved with really on my PTA, and I think I'm not sure why. I don't know if it's because I wasn't really sure how to do it or what I could get from a business. I mean, most of our interactions with businesses has been just raffle prizes, to be honest. We haven't, I know that some PTAs can get businesses to to sponsor events, um, that sort of thing. But yeah, it's I think I so I think the barrier from my point of view would be that I wouldn't actually know what to ask for from a business apart from a raffle prize. And not all businesses can provide a raffle prize. So um, so if Fundead can offer um any support with that, I think that would be really helpful.

Yeah, and I think if if a school sort of outlines what they're looking to raise funds for and the difference that that funding will make to the lives of the children in the school, and you keep it quite open-ended to the business to say, you know, if you're interested in supporting us, however, this is what we're looking to do, just let them come back to you, really.

Yeah, okay.

And and see how they can uh how they might be able to help you. And obviously, you can then say, in return, we can invite you into an assembly or put you on the website, or we've got a Facebook page, or we go in the newsletter, you know, it's different things that we can do that can help. I mean, one thing is we uh part of the funded subscription, we have a an online platform called Funding Wall, which is something we developed last year, um, which was something I've been trying to find somewhere that I could develop it because I'd always been interested by crowdfunding. We write a lot about crowdfunding, and there's some really good sites out there, uh Goodhub and you know, other crowdfunders and all these sorts of things. Um, but I wanted to create something where all of your online funding could be in one place and you could sell tickets and have raffles and and a donation page. But one of the things I've developed for that is a um something I've called the school enrichment fund. And the idea there is that you develop an online um you you use these sites to promote it, but I suggested to schools that they actually send a letter out, an email to all their suppliers. Oh, yeah, we'll have like a hundred people who supply the school, probably more, some schools, bigger schools. And this is everything from people who cut the grass, collect the catering, clean the windows, supply technology, yeah, whatever it is. And you say this is our enrichment fund, this is how the fund is going to be spent. We've got we're putting in a uh a garden in our junior school with sensory this, we're putting in a send center, we're putting all these things. This is and we're looking to raise money rather than a one-off, we're looking to keep build a fund over time that we can then we can then sort of deliver an ongoing benefit to the children. And um, as a supplier school, we'd like you to donate, but we're only asking you to donate £10 a month.

Wow, yeah.

Which is fine. Yeah, and so well, you can write it off against your corporation tax, it's nice, you know, all those sort of things. Get 100 suppliers, that's a thousand pounds a month.

Yes, gosh, that's an incredible idea. I think I'm gonna actually suggest that to my school. That's not something I've thought of.

So we said, you know, but take the idea, use it. Um, we have an online people news, or they don't have to use that, they're fair and do it their own way. That's but the idea is you you you you then build relationships with these suppliers and perhaps local businesses, but then obviously once term you put together a really nice newsletter about what you're achieving with that fund, send that out to all of those people so then they can get updates directly on how the money's being used. Yeah, and then they can put it on their website saying, Well, we're helping support St Mary's school and this is what they've done, sort of thing. So So I think it's about lots of different ideas for different schools. So different things like that would work, you know, if you I know I think from two years school, you're quite remote, aren't you? And you know you're quite unusual in your school.

Yes, so we are we are part we we are a village school, but of the village that the school's in, it's not actually the village I live in, but um the village the school is in, yes, people come people drive into my school. So um the actual village where the school is is is very, very small and has no facilities apart from a fancy hotel which does weddings, which we do, they do offer ruffle prizes um to us. But the people who actually live in the village, not many people that attend the school actually live in the village, so it's not like we could run a summer fate and lots of the villagers would come. It doesn't really work like that in our in our school's village, which is I think unusual.

So for you, it's it's tricky because you're probably still thought of as quite a good demographic area.

Yes, that's right. Yeah.

And um, and also you haven't got those local businesses to go and and and push. So actually, working with the suppliers in the school is quite a good route.

Yeah, it is, yeah. An untapped resource. Yeah, that's right, yeah.

And all you're doing is asking a question. They can then say no. Exactly. Yeah, you know.

Yeah, that's very true.

As long as you spend the money on what you say you're gonna spend it on, which is really important.

Yeah. Great. Well, thank you very much, Richard. I'm gonna take that back to my school uh this week. Yeah. Could you tell me a little bit more about the funding wall? So when you um if you are a subscriber to FundEd, which we'll talk a bit more about in a m in a moment, the the funding wall is a it's a website that you can edit yourself and it um and then it's like a it's a crowdfunding website on one hand.

So you you could I mean what we say is if you subscribe, then we're happy to manage it for you all the time. But we I also create lots of videos and help and guides so and people once I get used to using it, like using it. It's a bit like it's like I suppose if you've never used Facebook or Instagram, when you first get to use it, you'll I mean I'm still confused by some of the reels and things on Instagram. And I use it and I take lots of photos and I put my photos up. But then my son does all these things and I realized he's got all these different folders that you can view. So so once you know what you're doing, it seems easy, but if you don't, it's complicated. So we help with that. But so so on the one hand, if you're if you've ever used a crowdfunding site, you can use it exactly the same way. Okay, so you can just put up your your project, what you're raising funds for, and you just link that particular page to websites, and people click on it and they see what it is and they can donate money. But it also links through to uh um uh uh a wall where you can build other campaigns about what you're doing, fundraising. So if you're working with if you are doing some good work in the community with businesses, you can promote them, you can you can have a raffle. We have lots of schools now, lots of PTAs actually setting up to sell tickets for events, right? So you can sell tickets, and then it allows you to record the names of the kids coming and food allergies and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, um, you can run a raffle, you can run a members' club, a member the um we have a uh a members lottery, which is like a hundred club where you can set up that that people can sign up to and parent, and so you could sell tickets to parents for say five pounds a month. Yeah, but every month you can give away 40% of all the ticket money as a price. Yeah, so every month a parent wins 100 pounds or something. Yeah, again, it's a it's ways of doing things that that um can give some money back as a as a as an award, you know. Yeah, a little bit like your school lottery. I love your school lottery, that's really good company, really brilliant what they do, where you can actually win 25,000 cash, which is great. But you could run 100 clubs as well, where perhaps there's a smaller prize where you get lots of local prizes. So it's just different things that you might be able to do that allow you to and it it sort of links it all together really nicely, and and you can put upload pictures and you can also have sort of last year, you can have past events so you can record and show what you did last year, and yeah, and just it's just it's just another way of promoting it. And some schools and PTAs probably find it can find it difficult to upload to update a website because the website might be controlled by someone that you don't have to do.

That's right, yeah.

And if you've got if you want to to do things on the fly and get information quite quickly, that can be quite awkward. And also, we have PTAs often who have a website that the person who built the website's no longer on the PTA, you know, we've got a colleague how to update it. So, you know, so the idea is you provide something that can be updated really easily.

So it sounds just like you've basically created a website for so a PTA can have their own website and I mean it kind of really in effect it is, but it's not a website, but yes. No, no. But then I guess from you if you have a PTA page on your school's website, you can link to the funding wall and then anything you can't.

From your social media or Facebook, yeah, you can link to it.

Because my school has a website and we have a PTA page on it, but um, the way the website is structured with all the um frames on it, the actual amount of space left to write any content or put any pictures or anything is really restrictive and small. So it sounds like it'd be really useful just to use the funding wall to put all of that stuff on and then just link to it from the PTA page on the screen.

For example, you might have a recycle day where people are bringing in clones to recycle, therefore you can just have a little notice, put the nice little photograph on, tell them when the recycled day is, where they can, and you you know take you two minutes to upload that and stick it on. So it's just very easy then to store the information.

Yeah, brilliant.

I'll create one for you so then you can. Oh, okay.

Yeah, I'd love to. Thank you. So we've heard a lot about all the benefits of funded. So can you tell us now if somebody's interested in signing up, what the process is and what the costs are, please?

Um it's it costs £75 a year. And um if you go to funded.org.uk and click on uh at the top right, there's a a join button and they just tell it and it can go there and it'll tell you information about how to join and and how to to sign up. Um and you're off and running. Um if you're interested, I say uh if they're interested in this idea of finding a local sponsor to pay for it, something I'll put together at the moment, just email me and let me know. And um you know, because it'd be useful to have some schools that maybe want to pilot that.

Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah.

I I I think it will work, but until you actually start the process and see if schools sort of if businesses want to do that. But I think it's a nice idea. I think it's a good idea.

Well, I think anything that brings communities together, I don't think you can go wrong. I think there's always going to be ideas generated and help and support. And so yeah, I I that's what I really like about your your organization is that you are telling stories about what people are doing, you're encouraging other people to come in and you're kind of trying to bring people together because I think that's the strength. I mean, that's the strength of PTA, isn't it? When volunteers come together to do something.

I mean, that's also when we developed a Facebook page and and which has over 30,000 email PTAs signed up to a uh PTA ideas and advice network.

That's right, yeah, it's a bit of a mouthful.

But what we also set up is every county has its own Facebook group.

Yeah.

So we have Essex PTAs, Sussex PTAs, Kent PTAs, and some of them are really popular now, and that's really good because um if obviously if you're uh use the example of Devon again, if you're a Devon school, then they're you know, seeing what other schools in Devon have done and whatever, or if you're looking for borrowing some equipment or lending something out, you you want to go to local schools, and I think that's a really good way. And a lot of our counties now have PTAs locally who help administer those group pages for that council.

Oh, great, okay.

And I think that's so that's that that sort of works really well and achieves and sort of just exists in its own now and just sort of grows and develops, but it also means if we do find local grants or things, we can put them on the Facebook group as well. Or uh I uh I do a lot of work with suppliers because obviously suppliers advertise in the magazine and advertise on the site, and they're really important to me because if we didn't have suppliers, then you wouldn't have anything to buy, and it's important that we support them. Yeah, really important we support suppliers because they do amazing work out there, or the playground guys, yeah. And and uh we always say to them, if you get testimonials from PTAs, we'll put them on the county group. Yeah, so you know, sometimes if you get Fawns or Timothy or Play PlayQuest or whoever, and they've done a really good installation of the testimonial, we'll put that in the Durham Facebook group or the Lancashire Facebook group. So it it promotes the supplier as well because uh we want to spend, we want to shout about good suppliers as well.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because I think as a PTA, if you're you know, if you're buying new outdoor equipment which is really expensive, you spent loads of time fundraising for it, you want to know that what you're buying is is good and other people have had a good experience. So of course you're going to really read those reviews and choose company based on that, probably. Um so it's it's really been really interesting to talk to you, Richard. Um I just wondered if you had any comments or if you've noticed um any changes in school fundraising over the years and if you have a feel for how things might be progressing in the future in that respect.

Um I guess I suppose COVID sort of interrupted a lot of fundraising. And since COVID um I think there's been a lot more growth with online fundraising. And I think that um definitely because life is harder for families, um people, you know, both both parents tend to be working full-time. Yeah, it's harder to find people to dedicate the time to running PTAs. They always say if you you find a busy person and they'll end up running a PTA as well. Um so I think being smarter, you see PTAs being smarter and finding finding um more effective ways and using online tools to be more effective in the way they run their PTAs. I think you also um uh I've also noticed that they there's a there's more concentration on uh but I guess because they haven't got as much time to bigger events.

Yeah.

So they'll put a lot of effort into the Christmas fair, the summer fair, the spring fair, maybe a grand ball, maybe a big auction, because they can generate 10 grand, 11 grand, 12 grand, yeah, rather than you know, years ago a smaller craft fair or jumble sale or whatever.

Yeah, yeah.

We can put a lot a lot of effort into but not raise huge amounts of money. So because of because time so the time is tight, they will concentrate on developing those those bigger plans. Um but but also still uh recognising that they are an important um they can run they can run some social events for parents, which actually when times are tough, I I think sometimes they don't re some schools don't realise this enough. If you if you have a quiz night at PTA, you can have a brilliant night out and a quiz for you know 15 quid, 20 quid, jacket potato and beans and a quiz and a couple of drinks. And you've had a really good night out and the PTA's raised some money, and actually that's good for lots of reasons, a because it's it's expensive going out for a meal, going to parks, going whatever. We all know that if we've got a family, how expensive it is. So PTAs can put on really good events that are really good value and really good fun, and therefore also help bring the whole school community together, you know, because that they've all had a good time, you know, they've all had a you know something's been arranged, everyone loves it, and it's been so so there's I've seen I think that's uh continue to grow as a theme, you know. That people recognise that it's tough, and actually the more events you put on, the better. Yeah, um, I've seen that a lot more schools, we do a lot of work with things like circuses and things, and and uh and they're very popular because again they help they do raise a lot of money, and they there there are some risks involved. There are there is some some pain in putting them on sometimes because they're big events, but actually what the kids get back from them is huge, you know. It's really really great and and really makes a difference for the the memories that they have through their school life and they generate funds. So um so uh so I've seen PTAs become more ambitious from that point of view, yeah. And the types of things that they can they can run and get involved with.

I think that's really interesting actually. I wonder how much of that is is also because you're the PTA Um Ideas Network Facebook group. I mean, that's I discovered that during COVID as a PTA chair. And I I just wonder whether, because there are so many members on that Facebook group now and people are talking about PTAs so much more now. I wonder if seeing what other PTAs are doing is kind of fueling that positive feedback cycle of, oh, I've seen another PTA do this, so we can try and do this. I'm like, yeah, I just wonder if that has had an impact.

Oh, I'm sure it has, yeah. I'm sure it has. And and as you said earlier, it's just it's about fueling your belief. Well, they can do it. Well, there's no reason why why we can't do it.

Yeah, yeah.

And um and then when they do and they succeed, it's great.

You know, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

So great. Well, Richard, thank you so much for sharing all of that information about FundEd and all your um ideas. I mean, you've just got so many ideas of of how the fundraising landscape can be changed and improved. And I'm really excited to see if your community champions gets off the ground and the other and the and your idea about also having you know a database of businesses to support schools. I think that's such a fantastic idea.

And also there's a lot, there's lots of I I do quite a lot of work through funding with programs. So there's a program, for example, called World Class Schools, although I don't love the name because it isn't what they do. I have told them that. And they're lovely people, but but what they're all about is you gain a qualification for it's it's about helping your school develop characteristics and personality in the children, yeah. So it's about other non-academic things, yes, exactly. And then you get an index that you you get scored as an index and you go through these programs, yeah. And I really like it actually because I think it's really important that kids develop those other skills that can make you stand out. Because if you're an employer and everyone's got three A's A level degree from whatever, the fact that you've done these other things and you've recognized the importance of those other sorts of characteristics. So, but what I was gonna say, it great organisation really like them, but they have a program that they that schools pay for, and it can cost £1,500 or £2,000, or you know, there's an alumni company that does similar things that have a great project for schools because schools hard find it hard to justify the cost of those things because they don't fit in a budget. Yes, yeah, but to me, they are perfect things that can be sponsored by a local business.

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah, quite a big business because they I mean these these those ones are particularly probably secondary level, but but because they they mean so much and they can they you know there's lots of added value for the business, and you know, £1,500 for a big house builder or whatever, or big engineering company in a town isn't huge, and they can get involved in lots of ways for the school, but it really can make a huge difference for the children, yeah, because I think as a program it can do a huge amount for the school. It's the same way as we something that hasn't come back. I haven't seen as much since COVID, but pre-COVID, there was a company that did Steam workshops, and Steam was putting the arts into STEM.

Yes, I've heard that before, yeah.

And they and they would they would set up a workshop in a school for a weekend that but again they would have it sponsored by a local business, and then all the other schools would come in and they would be building rockets and different things, they were fantastic, yeah, you know, really great events to get involved with and to sponsor. So yeah, it's just uh it's just finding out how you can do that, yeah.

Yeah, that's right. It's putting the two people that need to speak to each other together, isn't it? And then they can they can hopefully uh generate.

The other thing that I I want to try and pursue at some point, probably through my community champion on the that funding side is actually fund a part-time fundraiser in a school. I think a lot of the schools I work with, if you had someone who was in that school volunteering, perhaps as little as four hours a week, you know, it can make such a huge difference.

Yeah.

Now you could be a volunteer, but I would always say to a school, when schools have asked me about this, I say I would always pay them. Because if you have someone as a volunteer, there's always a reason why they might not come in. That's right. Whereas if you pay them, even if it's only two, three, four hours a week, yeah, it makes a difference. Because if you're uh a dad or a mum, more likely a mum, I guess, who's looking to work turn time and do some extra hours, perhaps someone who's been on the PTA that kids have left the school.

Yeah.

If you can then volunteer and you can be that glue between the PTA and the school, and the school and the local businesses and the school and the programs, and someone who can liaise with the with the grant foundation, etc., it can make such a big help to a business manager or a burser that's trying to get things off the ground.

So that actually sounds like my ideal job, I think. Yeah, I would love to do that. Because I think if you've been on the PTA a long time, you have already started to make those connections, so it would be great to you know carry them on forwards.

But uh and if you've been on the PTA and yours PTA has I'm sure yours has succeeded, you know you've got the organisation skills, you've got the communication skills, because you've got all those skills you need to act as that go-between and that and that person in the middle. Yeah, that's good.

The glue. Yes, the glue, absolutely.

Glue fundraiser here.

Well, thank you so much, Richard. Um if anyone wants to have a look at the funded website, it's fundeed.org.uk, isn't it?

Yeah, fundeed.org.uk. Yeah. Fundingwall is fundingwall.org.uk.

Okay, so you can have a sneak peek. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, we know that one. Yeah, that's great. Well, thanks. Thanks again, Richard. And uh yeah, I'll be having a look at those funding wall websites myself actually to see what they're all about.

Okay.

That's great. Thank you.

Thank you.

Wasn't that such a great conversation? There were so many ideas in there that you could try or just, you know, find out more details about. One of the things I really liked was the way that Richard looks at school fundraising, and he sort of seems to envisage it as a giant umbrella. And underneath that umbrella sits actually quite a few different aspects of school fundraising. So you've got the PTA, which is just one part of it, and then other things like grant applications, matched funding, um, business sponsorship, and fundraising by the school itself, and all of those things come together and go towards improving the school budget. I know that we all struggle for volunteers, but it made me think it that in an ideal world we would possibly have a team in each of those different categories so that money could come in from a variety of sources, and I thought that was a really interesting idea, and it would certainly help you to look at your fundraising overall and maybe identify areas that you hadn't really explored before. Um, so it's you know it's not all about asking the same parents for support all the time, and I mean maybe you could even pick two or three of those different areas to to concentrate on and and to try and fully maximise those instead of trying to sort of spread yourself too thinly across all of them. Um I also thought the fundraising review that Fundead offers would be really invaluable and would save many volunteer hours to put all of that together, especially, you know, all the grants that they've got on the grants database. And I think I have to say, I think £75 per year to access a massive grants database is quite a bargain. Um, and uh, you know, perhaps you could even split the cost of that between you and your school because I think you know, certainly if your PTA is a charity, you might be able to access um grant opportunities that your school can't access, so it could be really beneficial for both of you. And that's all I've got to say for this episode. I really hope you enjoyed my chat with Richard and there are some ideas there for you to pursue. Uh, don't forget to um like and review or rate my podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you leave me a rating or review, it just helps my podcast get bumped up the list and might help some other PTA volunteers find it. So I would really appreciate that if you could. Uh and yeah, don't forget to drop me an email if uh you want to let me know what's happening in your PTA world at the moment. I'm sure there are many, many events going on because it's that busy Christmasy time of year. So do let me know what you're getting up to. My email is hello at PTA Podcast.com. And that's it for now. I will chat to you next time.